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Quick Cryptic 1394 by Bob and Margaret

This took me 10 minutes, but oon reflection there's nothing unfair or excessively complex. I havent done one by Bob and Margaret before so maybe it's just a wavelength thing. Good mix of clues, nice surfaces. Hard to pick a winner - I like 8ac and also 11dn

1 Some provided source of Latin poetry (4)
OVID -  hidden word -  prOVIDed
4 Admen had styles personally crafted (8)
HANDMADE - anagram ('styles') of ADMEN HAD
8 Three of the fifteen best seats? (5,3)
FRONT ROW - double definition. The front row of a rugby scrum consists of three players, two massive 'props' and a slightly shorter player called a 'hooker' (no laughing across the atlantic), out of the total of 15.
9 Instrument in sack brought back (4)
TOOL - LOOT backwards
10 Auditor’s punished for discovery (4)
FIND - sounds like FINED
11 Yellow clay rod somehow bearing weight (8)
COWARDLY - anagram ('somehow') of CLAY ROD with W for weight inside
12 Judge encounters advocate, finally, when returning (6)
ESTEEM - MEETS + E all backwards
14 Month that ends too soon for girl (6)
MARTHA - MAR (month) + THA(t)
16 Hold back from relaxation, then shower (8)
18 A number a lot may go for cheaply? (4)
SONG - 'going for a song' means to sell cheaply
19 Raising agent, heading off in this direction? (4)
EAST - YEAST minus the 'heading'
20 Father’s host for old TV show (4,4)
DADS ARMY - barely cryptic.
22 Road-edge spoiled, with battered corners (3-5)
DOG-EARED - anagram ('spoiled') of ROAD EDGE
23 Eagle sailors found in middle of Greece (4)
ERNE - sailors are RN (Royal Navy) inside EE (middle of 'Greece')

2 Maids serving King drink within six seconds (7)
VIRGINS - King is R, drink is GIN. All contained within VI (six) S (seconds)
3 Ate in study I’d set up (5)
DINED - DEN ID reversed
4 The girl’s seeing the earl regularly (3)
HER - alternate letters of tHe EaRl
5 She has the latest snowman we built (9)
NEWSWOMAN - anagram ('built') of SNOWMAN WE
6 Older erratum corrected (7)
MATURER - anagram ('corrected') of ERRATUM
7 Amusing conclusion to repeated spin (5)
DROLL - D (last letter of 'repeated') + ROLL (spin)
11 Someone who arrives holding mike, with officer in charge? (9)
COMMANDER - Someone who arrives is a COMER, with M (Mike, phonetic alphabet) + AND (with) inside
13 On reflection, some felt it needed permit (7)
ENTITLE - 'some' = hidden word klaxon. This one is reversed: fELT IT NEeded
15 Game where the suspense comes at the end (7)
HANGMAN - cryptic definition
17 Books are turning up inspirational source (5)
ERATO - OT (old testament ) + ARE all backwards. One of the Muses of Greek and Roman mythology.
18 Good fellow on the beer becoming overfamiliar (5)
STALE - ST (good fellow) + ALE
21 Detective having daughter carried out (3)
DID - DI (Detective Inspector) + D


( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
Jul. 12th, 2019 08:06 am (UTC)
This one took me over my target as I struggled to get on the wavelength. Looking back there was nothing too difficult. ENTITLE was particularly well hidden. I wasted time trying to make MARCIA or MARCIE fit at 14a. FOI, OVID, LOI ENTITLE. Nice puzzle. 10:57. Thanks Bob and Margaret, and Curarist.
Jul. 12th, 2019 08:12 am (UTC)
All I remember is biffing FRONT ROW, probably my LOI; I had no idea what was going on, not knowing anything about rugby (like having rows, for instance). ENTITLE took some time; hiddens always do for me, even with 'some'. 6:47.
Jul. 12th, 2019 08:32 am (UTC)
Well, a nice puzzle but clearly a change of style - it took me over 3K so back in the SCC. I tripped over MARTHA, biffed COMMANDER, didn't parse FRONT ROW fully, I liked ERATO, ESTEEM, and COWARDLY. LOI was STALE (seems obvious now!). Many thanks to Bob and Margaret (we bought our house from Bob and Margaret decades ago) and to curarist for his parsing skills. John M.
Jul. 12th, 2019 08:58 am (UTC)
This puzzle contains the hidden word OFFERED in its first column. I wonder if that has significance for your house purchase from B&M?
Jul. 12th, 2019 08:55 am (UTC)
This is only Bob-and-Margaret's 3rd puzzle in just under four years! One in September 2015, one in January 2017 and now today. I just scraped home within my target 10 minutes.

Edited at 2019-07-12 08:59 am (UTC)
Jul. 12th, 2019 09:20 am (UTC)
I was dead on my 20 minute target for what I thought was a very nice puzzle.
LOI was 12A - I can't see why JUDGE = ESTEEM, and there's nothing in the Chambers app to suggest it.

Jul. 12th, 2019 09:55 am (UTC)
Collins has:
2. formal
to judge or consider; deem
to esteem an idea improper

The Oxfords have it covered too so it's odd that Chambers doesn't. I think it has been acknowledged by one of the editors that Collins is the principal reference for the Weekday cryptics, and maybe the Sunday Times too, so perhaps Chambers is a little out of favour these days. On the other hand we had an abbreviation in the main puzzle yesterday (GS for Grammar School) that was only in Chambers.

Edited at 2019-07-12 10:03 am (UTC)
Jul. 12th, 2019 10:05 am (UTC)
RE: Esteem
Thanks Jackkt
Chambers has
esteem /i- or e-stēm'/
transitive verb
To set a high estimate or value on
To regard with respect or friendship
To consider or think
High estimation or value
Favourable regard
Estimation of worth
ORIGIN: Fr estimer, from L aestimāre

esteemed' adjective

In commercial correspondence, a colourless complimentary word

Jul. 12th, 2019 09:25 am (UTC)
Well, 15d and 18a had me so stumped that I gave up after 62 minutes and tossed the paper aside in the hopes that inspiration would strike if I came back to it in a little while. Thankfully the little while was about a minute as hangman dawned on me. Can't believe I didn't think of it before, which of course is a hallmark of a great clue. The same can be said about song, which I got once I had the n from hangman. Had to biff front row (I thought a reference to the final three in Fifteen to One was a bit unlikely) and had never heard of Erato, although saying that, I suspect it has come up before and I've just forgotten. Overall a very enjoyable puzzle.
Jul. 12th, 2019 10:23 am (UTC)
Maybe it is because I am back on a desktop and can see the whole of the grid but I found this Bob and Margaret QC to be the easiest solve of the week and a boon after yesterday's poor performance. My FOI was 1a OVID so that helped. 17d ERATO was constructed from word play and checkers and felt right despite my lack of knowledge of mythology. 12a ESTEEM and 11d COMMANDER had me pondering a while. 15d HANGMAN made me smile and gets my COD. 9:32
Jul. 12th, 2019 10:37 am (UTC)
A bit late coming here because of internet problems. "Ethernet doesn't have a valid IP configuration" sounds like a clue from the difficult Friday 15x15. A bit of TCP helps but it stings.
Anyway I solved this on paper in a shade over 10 minutes. Lots of constructions and words which I have learnt from crosswords so this won't trouble experienced solvers. I was slow to start with FIND but once I got going I had no hold-ups. LOI was SONG. Good to see the ERNE again which used to appear almost daily in the Evening Standard puzzles I used to solve.
A fun puzzle. David
Jul. 12th, 2019 10:54 am (UTC)
Seeing "Bob and Margaret" as the setters gave me an instant flashback to "Rita, Sue and Bob Too". A rather more accurate portrait of Britain than Hogwarts!

A very enjoyable puzzle done and dusted (though without understanding ERATO - thanks for lightening my darkness, curarist) in 1.5K for a Good Day. FOI OVID, LOI MARTHA (I was another one trying to make "Marcia" work), COD HANGMAN.

Thanks to our husband/wife or father/daughter or two mates or some other combination team.

Jul. 12th, 2019 11:51 am (UTC)
I found this a strange mix of easy and quite difficult clues. Usually that's the sign of a good puzzle, but I kept on thinking that If only Bob and Margaret would talk to each other before they took turns in setting the clues... Probably just me having a wavelength problem, but, either way, this was a frustrating 30 mins or so. Invariant
Jul. 12th, 2019 12:06 pm (UTC)
On this one
Jul. 12th, 2019 02:29 pm (UTC)
Bob and Margaret
I wonder if this the same couple I met in a pub in Rhyl? I cannot for the life of me remember their surname!



COD 8ac FRONT ROW (Rugger buggers!)


Bob and Margaret Fish that's them - check 'em out on Wikipedia!

Time 10 minutes and 20 seconds

Edited at 2019-07-12 02:33 pm (UTC)
Jul. 12th, 2019 03:54 pm (UTC)
Re: Bob and Margaret
More importantly what were you doing in Rhyl? I grew up in Rhyl and cannot think of any reason to go there other than to visit my parents.
Jul. 12th, 2019 03:47 pm (UTC)
DNF. Apart from yesterday this has not been a good week for me. I got 17D though I had forgotten what/who she was. I failed to complete the SE corner as DNK 23A and was on the wrong wavelength with 18A and 18D. I initially thought 8A was FIFTH ROW as three is one fifth of 15 but I biffed it eventually without understanding the rugby reference. COD is 2D - very clever. Here's hoping I do better next week!
Jul. 12th, 2019 08:33 pm (UTC)
Came to this late today and it took a while to get on the wavelength, but nothing overly tricky. Completed in 13.29
Thanks for the blog
Jul. 12th, 2019 10:47 pm (UTC)
I always enjoy new (to me) setters, and this was no exception. Took me a long time, partly because I wasn't sure what to expect. Greatly enjoyed some of the clues and word play, notably HANGMAN and FRONT ROW. Had to construct ERATO, I remember this as a music label from years ago, now I understand why they chose the name! LOI was MARTHA, I was toying with MARSHY (with SHY as meaning just short of, i.e. that ends too soon), but it just didn't seem right as a name, even as a diminutive. Many thanks to Bob and Margaret.
Jul. 12th, 2019 10:49 pm (UTC)
Sorry, I got logged out before submitting the above. Dante21c

Edited at 2019-07-12 10:50 pm (UTC)
( 20 comments — Leave a comment )

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